Respond to Kathy's essay

09/24/2010

Props to Kathy for having the guts to go first here. The essay is up as a link from the main blog page. She asks us to respond in "sandwich" form -- not totally sure what that means, but here's my guess: Praise/suggestion/praise. Am I right, Kathy? Let's go with that for now. So, as a comment on this message:

1) What do you like most about the essay?
2) What one thing should she work on? Focus at this point on content, rather than form, ideas rather than how to connect them to the books, etc.
3) End with some kind of encouragement

Comments

Kathy Zhou

09/24/2010 16:14

Thanks Mr. Baron!

I'd really like to know whether to focus only on the consumer relationship between parent and kid, since I have a lot of data on this, or if I can talk more generally on the consumer relationships between friends and family. Also, just critique ANYTHING, make ANY suggestions, etc.
Go to our cross-country meet this saturday! It's at Amherst.

Adam Goldstein

09/25/2010 13:04

This is an awesome first draft and I really like how its set up, it's which is a lot like the gladwell article. You did an awesome job starting with a story of your own and ending with a story of your own, it fits perfectly.

If there is something I would change it would be in the body. The paragraph about the schor question on making money is really good, and the follow up in the next paragraph with the question about commercials is an interesting point but there doesn't seem to be a wrap up of these findings, just the data. If you want to make the point about commercials I think you should elaborate more on it. Also, it doesn't really fit with the parent-child relationship piece that comes right after it. If you have a lot to say about that subject then you should, but a little bit about the commercials and a little bit about the parent-child relationship leaves the reader hanging without a conclusion of what these findings mean as a whole to your argument.

I think if you elaborate on one or both of those parts the essay would be really really good. What comes after that part is really solid, so just fleshing out the middle transition part going from in persuasion nation ideas to everything bad is good for you ideas would improve it a lot. Awesome job all around!

Amanda Sands

09/25/2010 16:39

I LOVED your last two paragraphs. They worked SO well together, were worded very nicely, and really made a good point worth thinking about. The way you said it all there...I was thinking WOW, she really hit it home!

I'm going to start with something small that isn't a unique critique (holy cow, what a rhyme) of your paper, but of papers in general. Proof read! AND, make sure the words you're using are the right words (see your use of "nonetheless" and "permeates").

While I liked your usage of data/examples from the books you read, I have to say that I couldn't discern a logical connection between a) the body paragraphs and your conclusion in the last two paragraphs, and b) the books' theses and your thesis. I guess to be blunt: your main point was sort of lost on me for the majority of the paper (so far; I know there's still 1,000 words to go).

Instead of just summarizing and spitting back facts from the sources, I suggest taking the broader themes (not smaller facts) from the books and using them to either prove or counter your point. Since your paper seems to focus on the bigger picture, using somewhat insignificant (and sometimes unrelated) examples from your books doesn't make sense. If you were to use smaller bits of the books, they should directly relate to your thesis, and not so much to the theses of their own mother-books (if you get my drift), respectively.

(I'm not sure if I'm making sense in words...it made sense in my head.)

I think I know where your paper is going, and I'm pretty sure you know where your paper is going, so that's not a problem. Though your thoughts seemed a little jumbled throughout the body, the ending was superb. Maybe...you could work backwards and try to model the rest of the paper after the last couple paragraphs--try to have the beginning support the ending more?

Hey I think I know why I couldn't quite follow the paper: you just didn't spend enough time introducing and explaining the point that you've extracted from each book. It's clear that you understood the arguments of the books, but since your audience hasn't read them, it's a bit difficult to really grasp what you're trying to say.

Okay sorry this was a little harsh--I did truly like your essay--I just didn't feel like you give the enough guidance, in most of the body, to follow your thought process.

Once you've added your additional 1,000 words and fleshed out the paper a bit more, I think you'll really have something. You know I also read the "media" books...but I hadn't even thought about what you've pointed out here until I read your paper. It's quite original, and it's really going somewhere. I'd love to read the rest of it when your finished. :)

Amanda Sands

09/25/2010 16:39

oh my god i'm so embarrased

*****you're

Bianca Ho

09/25/2010 20:11

First of all, I love your introduction/conclusion (not sure what to call them). I like how anecdotal they feel, and they add to a colloquial tone that the whole essay has. They are short, but get the point across. I also agree with Amanda; the last paragraph really made me think, "yeah, I know what you mean!"

If there was anything I'd change, It would be the body of the essay. As Amanda felt, I felt that your exact point wasn't very clear until the very end. Some kind of logical pointer or beginning should be added toward the introduction so that readers know (generally) where you're going.

When you added the paragraphs about Johnson and video games, it felt a little out of place to me; it seemed almost irrelevant. You talk about parent-child relationships right before video games, and it seemed sort of inconsistent.

You come to a really unique conclusion at the end, and there are some truly good ideas at work here. I enjoy the tone and the way you write... and I'm guessing you'll have much more room to clarify and expand thoughts/arguments with another 1,000 words.

Alexandra Koch

09/25/2010 21:26

Hi Kathy! So i thought the essay was over all good. I liked the flow of ideas, and i thought your use of information and data was well played. As well, your ideas were all there. They were well explained when you delved into them, though sometimes it seemed like you shied away from saying things because the information you were using was saying it better. If that made any sense. But i thought the essay was a good base for your next draft.

A few comments...
The beginning was confusing. I was grabbed, but once the doritos came into the equation i got confused. Is that a actual quote, or are you summarizing?
A towns named newton i believe, not called. The tidbit of the cross country meet was a tad out of the blue, if you say maybe how the kids cared more about the bag then the kid they were trampling, that may make more sense. "Recent field studies seem to confirm", take out the seem, it makes the statement feel like it might not be good quality. Why was the fact about relation to parents in there? Elaborate on the importance a bit more. (Small thing, sim city is AWESOME!) I liked the conclusion's tie in with the beginning. Maybe beginning with your story and ending with the other would make the "sandwich" effect.

YOU GO GIRL! Idno if thats the type of encouragement you wanted, but i think your off to a great start. A few tweeks there, a pinch there, and its in tip top shape. And like Bianca said, the extra 1000 words will give you the space to really juice up the paper. Your writing already has a good flow, very natural, so after some editing the inflection you want on some points will be more clear.

Josh Garvin

09/26/2010 05:19

I felt that the conclusion (the last two paragraphs) was well written and that it really helped to convey the point that (I think) you were trying to make. It made me understand what you were arguing and rapped up your ideas nicely.

That being said, i felt like the body of the essay could do a better job of conveying your point. To me it seemed a that your body paragraphs didn't lead to the conclusion that you drew at the end and that a little bit clearer direction at the beginning would go a long way to help the essay. I do understand that part of your problem may have been that you had only 1,000 words and that the other 1,000 will help to explain the ideas you pose better.

I also felt that the jump to Johnson and talking about video games was a bit abrupt and confusing. You repeated a lot of what the author said and didn't add all that much of your own. again, this might be because of the word limit, but a little more explanation and originality in that area would help clear up the entire essay. By the way incarceration rates is the percentage of people that are in prison compared to the total population.

The essay shows a strong voice (usually) and the addition of another 1,000 words will allow you to really bring the essay together without too much trouble and clear up any confusion that the reader might have. You have a great start to your essay and will be able to make it much better without much difficulty.

Annie Humphrey

09/26/2010 07:31

I really enjoyed your essay and I was surprised by how well-formulated it is already, even this early on in the writing process!

As Alexandra said, I thought the beginning was a bit confusing. I didn't read Persuasion Nation, so I didn't really understand what you were talking about. At first I thought it was something you'd actually witnessed until it started getting crazy, and then after that I wasn't sure if you were summarizing or quoting. I think that part could be a really good opening though if you just clean it up a bit.

I really like the connection of the first anecdote into the body of the essay. However, some of the data from Schor was way more specific than the data from Johnson. Maybe try to even those out a bit, but I'm not really sure. Even though you said you have a lot of data on parent-child relationships and consumerism, your anecdotes are more about people-to-people in general, so either change the anecdotes or get more data on other consumer relationships (or add more of a mixture of each).

The second-to-last paragraph is probably the most important, but that's one of the ones you should really expand; I still don't feel like there's enough proof for you to say "caring about material goods is essential"...right now I think just being aware of them and knowing how to use them is important, so try to incorporate more facts to convince me and other readers.

Even though I said before that one option would be to change your anecdotes, I would recommend not doing them because they are really strong and what makes the essay complete. The last part about the cucumbers is great because it shows just what you said "we all still act like humans." I can't really explain why, but it just seems like such a perfect ending. Great job!

Jillian Stein

09/26/2010 10:20

Your essay got my attention from the very beginning. You did a great job balancing the entertainment factor in the essay with factual evidence.

Although I understood your point by the end of the essay, I think you could have done a better job with making that idea flow throughout the body. I believe I would have gotten a deeper understanding of your point if it was fully introduced earlier on.

Your introduction and conclusion paragraphs fit perfectly and bring character to your essay. Your word choice is appropriate, but definitely not boring. Great job, this is an amazing start!!

Rachel Leshin

09/26/2010 11:27

Kathy-- first of all, it's very evident how much thought you've already put into your topic/essay, so that's really great! I can tell this is a subject you're really invested in, and that makes your words all the more powerful.

-I think that one of the best parts of this piece is its ability connect to/engage the reader. Your use of rhetorical questioning in particular draws the reader in and challenges the reader to answer the questions himself. These questions also add your own spin on the data presented, as you use them to sort of guide the reader's analysis of a quotation in a particular direction. This device also makes the paper feel a bit more informal/conversational and makes reading the paper feel reminiscent of having a conversation with you. Overall, I felt that your use of rhetorical questioning really helped establish tone, engage the reader, and guide the reader logically from one of your points to the next.

-I think that the weakest part of this essay is ultimately its focus, which I think you were getting at in your own blog post. I feel like at this point your essay sort of jumps around from point to point about the pros/cons of consumerism without sticking to an overarching theme or question. You talk about the implication of consumerism in terms of 1) kids' moral values, 2) children in general, 3) parent-child relationships, 4) crime, and 5) societal values (and possibly more that I'm missing). I think that you should either narrow in on the relationship between consumerism on one of these things (maybe the parent-child relationships, as you'd mentioned before?) OR find a theme/idea that encompasses all of these points and then use them to prove your larger point, making sure to connect each example to your all-encompassing thesis. I personally think that exploring the relationship between consumerism and parent-child relationships is an interesting/unique idea, and something I'd definitely be curious to learn about. In any event, I would just try to make your focus a little more specific.

-I think that once you narrow your focus down, this piece will be incredibly powerful. I like how you sort of put a spin on the typical argument that "consumerism is bad" by honing in on its positive qualities without soundly overly idealistic or naive. With a focused, thoughtful topic which I'm sure you'll figure out, the insight you bring to the subject, and the strong voice you already have, this paper will be a hit!

Celia Kaufer

09/26/2010 11:50

Great Job Kathy! The beginning of your essay really grabbed my attention. You used a very relatable idea to introduce your topic and explain what its about.

One thing I think you can work on is your example using Born To Buy. I like that you are stating both sides of the argument, but then afterwards I think you can have a stronger analysis of her evidence. I'm confused about what the general outcome is from using her statistics.

Concerning the question you asked about what to focus on, I think the best thing you can do is just choose. Once you choose what to focus on, I have no doubt that you'll write a great essay with it. But until then I think Rachel is right that it jumps around just a little bit.

I really liked the grey-area approach you took to your essay. You used both sides very well and then at the end of the essay you came out with a strong ending showing which side you're leaning towards. Also loved how you tied the Dorito anecdote back in at the end. Well done Kathy!

Rachel Schy

09/26/2010 12:30

At first I had NO clue what was going on. Grandparents hitting each other because of a dorito bag? STRANGE, but then you transitioned very nicely into why it was relevant. it really made me want to continue reading.

I agree with Rachel in the fact that the essay jumps around from point to point. it would be helpful and easier to read if you narrowed the essay down to one or two of the ideas you mentioned. It seems like you are interested in parent-child relationships, so maybe stick to that?

Overall a great start. I liked how you modeled it relatively similar to Orwell by starting an anecdote towards the beginning and closing with the same one. Awesome job!

Hyun Seung Lee

09/26/2010 14:33

Alright, before I begin, I must warn you that although I am trying to be nice, being a very harsh person, things I write may not come out so nicely.

That being said, I do like your essay - especially the conclusion part. They are very well-formulated, and mixes the emotional and logical elements with a nice balance. The essay in general has a direction, and it seems like the general structure is there.

However, there are many ways in which this essay could flow better. They will be listed below.
1. Transition. This is the largest problem I saw throughout the essay. The excerpt is fine, but that needs to be connected to consumerism. The sentence "Has humanity...consumerism?" doesn't seem to fit right after "Finally, the Doritos bad(?)...sword for insulting it." Also, you describe the scene as a "work of fiction", "purely made up", and "bit of a parody of the truth". So, is it completely made up, or is it a parody on an existing situation? The first sentence on third paragraph might be enhanced with the addition of "Despite the absolute ridiculousness of...". The third and fourth paragraph do not fit perfectly together, and same happens between 5th and 6th, as well as 6th and 7th.

2. There are certain sentences you may be better off without. For example, the question "Do people like Doritos that much?" Although the rhetorical question is strong, it doesn't seem to exactly fit in that space to me. Same with the sentence "Violent toys and games....are also influences", although that one may just be an incomplete sentence.

3. The statistics you use, conducted by Juliet Schor, is not very reliable. First of all, she only conducts the survey on 300 children in Boston + 210 near Boston, which is NOT representative of the entire population of the U.S. children. Moreover, there is a clear bias in the wording of her survey questions. After all, what kind of a kid wouldn't want to "make a lot of money when [he/she grows] up"? If the question was "would you rather make a lot of money or be able to change the world?", then it may be a fair measure. Same bias applies to the statement "I care...possessions".

That being said, I believe this essay does have a general overview of how it should flow, and once you figure out some of the dams blocking its flow, it will be excellent.

Sammie Levin

09/26/2010 14:40

Awesome first draft and thanks for volunteering your essay!

I agree with almost all the comments that have been made so far. As others have said, I really enjoyed the anecdotal intro and conclusion because not only does it captivate the reader's attention, but it also gives a sense of your voice. It can be very hard to write with a personal voice, but I think your voice was clear in the beginning and end, and consistently in the body paragraphs through your rhetorical questioning.

One way you could improve your essay is by taking out (or clarifying) the section about the contradicting findings of Juliet Schor's survey because I think the information is a bit irrelevant and inconclusive. How does the parent-child relationship tie into the rest of your essay? If you have more information on this to include in your final draft that supports and furthers your ultimate point, then maybe this section could work, but right now its unclear if there is a connection between this and the paragraphs following it.

I also think that the introduction could be even better if you sharpened it up a bit by rewording a few of the sentences so the whole thing flows more.
Example: "As the young man drops his car keys, a bag of Doritos falls to the ground."
How does the first part of the sentence relate to the second? How does the man dropping his car keys make the Doritos fall/where is the bag falling from? This is really minor but for some reason it confused me.

Overall, I think you have a really great start and I am sure that with more editing and more examples your point will be even more clear and everything will tie together. Keep letting your voice shine through cause that is definitely a strong aspect to your writing!

Encouragement:

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001098075/You_Go_Girl_answer_102_xlarge.jpeg

Sarah Seto

09/26/2010 14:58

Like everyone before me, I really like how you refer back to your personal anecdote at the end of the essay. It definitely solidified your purpose and tied the piece together as a whole. It’s probably my favorite component of the essay. I thought the point about the parent-child dynamic was interesting. It’s definitely a different perspective that you should run with.

I thought that some of your points seemed a little fragmented. I saw a loose connection between most of them, but it wasn’t quite defined. I couldn’t figure out the overall statement in the essay until the very end. I realize the word limit on this draft, so adding some more transitions and connections between points would really help your final draft be more fluid throughout the piece.

You have a lot of great points in your essay that aren’t just generic “media is good” or “media is bad.” You used your personal voice effectively to really incorporate the reader into the whole experience. Once you elaborate more on those perspectives and connect the body paragraph ideas together, it’ll be even better!

Danny Gifford

09/26/2010 15:07

This is a really great start, Kathy, and ditto to all the encouragement above.
I think you have an excellent voice, and the amiable, colloquial tone made me want to agree with you.
I'm not sure I would start off with the Persuasion Nation anecdote; I think something more personal would be stronger.
I wasn't all that convinced by Schor's study, as it didn't really surprise me that much. It's hard to imagine any kid not answering with the majority to any of those questions.
Obviously the ideas need to be fleshed out a little more, but that's what the next thousand words are for.
The conclusion was great, and I think you're definitely on track for an excellent essay.

Josh Kruskal

09/26/2010 15:13

Wow, excellent first draft, Kathy! The thing that struck me almost immediately about your essay was how much it really sounded like you- I think you really hit the whole "find your voice" thing pefectly, which has been something I've had trouble doing myself. You sound confident throuhtout the essay and you consistently provide examples and analysis to support and enhance your argument.

You might want to consider working on organizing your ideas in a more ffective way. I think you have some really great material, but the flow can, at times, get a little choppy. I had fun getting away from the five paragraph format and it appears you did too, but remember that how you present your ideas can have just as big of an impact on a reader a the quality of the ideas themselves.

Again, excellent work on this, and thanks for sharing! You probably only have a few things to touch up from this version- but otherwise I'd say you really did a great job.

Daniel Fuchs

09/26/2010 15:36

Great start, Kathy! This was a really strong draft.

-Your opening and closing paragraphs were both incredibly strong, especially the opener. The example you used was incredibly gripping and made perfect sense with the question you were trying to answer. Your voice, as well, felt natural--not informal, yet not casual; you found a nice balance of the two. Overall, the point was argued well, and the way you're currently using the sources is effective.

-Some parts of the essay, however, could be organized a little bit better. The Doritos story in the first three paragraphs connected the beginning well, but towards the end, the paragraphs seemed to jump a little bit. You've got a lot of really great points, so you might want to reorganize the last few paragraphs or change a few transitions.

Overall, this is a REALLY great start, and the content of the essay is really solid; it just needs a few organizational changes. Keep going with this topic--I think you can write an incredibly strong essay with it!

Danny Yang

09/26/2010 16:23

Great first draft. I really liked how you incorporated statistics from the book as well as your own personal experiences as part of your argument. I also liked the way you started off some of your paragraphs with questions and then argued for both sides.

To improve the essay, I think you should make the transitions more fluid and have a more logical flow in your argument. There are some points in the essay where I can't see a point connecting to the next one. Also, the statistic about commercials is a bit risky, because it is impractical to watch commercials to decide on things you buy; commercials are actually used more to promote a brand in general by inscribing a brand name into the minds of consumers.

Overall, I think you are off to a great start and you can easily make your essay better by adding in some details in your next 1000 words. Good luck!

Justin Q.

09/26/2010 16:44

Nice draft Kathy! My favorite part of the essay is definitely the personal stories at the beginning and end. It worked so well with the point you are trying to make and put your voice and experiences into the piece. I also thought you did a great job presenting the sources in a subtle way.

My only suggestion would be linking the points a bit more. The views on the issues you presented seemed to jump rather quickly, without enough analysis on the middle-ground where your essay eventually ends up.

But in the end, everything was tied up nicely with the personal story. Once the ideas are fleshed out and linked (after adding 1000 more words that shouldn't be a problem), you will have a fantastic essay!

Ari Ebstein

09/26/2010 17:38

Cool essay, Kathy, and major props on having the guts to volunteer it.

I like how the essay drew me in and how your voice really came through in those opening sentences. The casual tone made for a very relaxing read.

At times, I wasn't exactly sure how all the parts of your essay came together. Most of it I could follow, but you lost me a bit at the Schor survey. The frustrating part of that was what you had to say was really interesting (the statistics and analysis,) but I couldn't really grasp what it all meant.

The conclusion was excellent. The last two paragraphs work very well together, and again the personal anecdote was a really nice touch.

Thomas Li

09/26/2010 22:10

I love how your beginning and ending are two halves of the same anecdote. That's a surprisingly good way to catch the reader before bringing them full circle through your argument and back to the beginning.

One thing I dislike (though this may only apply to me) is that youwait until the end before introducing your viewpoint that "Society hasn’t thrown away its values; it’s simply added to them." If this idea were briefly mentioned earlier, I think the essay would be more convincing.

Ultimately, I find your use of research studies, balanced by a more personal voice, works to argue your ideas in a way the to which the reader can connect.

Tony Wang

09/27/2010 04:41

The essay has great introductory paragraphs. They caught my attention and made me want to read more (not just to complete the homework, but to actually read it).

However, I wonder how valid the example in the third paragraph is. Does it matter that the boy was holding a bag of Doritos? I think, being guys, they were just fooling around with each other. This is only a small point though.

Using statistics is great way to make yourself a credible writer (a technique I failed to use in my essay). They strengthen your argument through numbers.

The last couple paragraphs were great in that they again tied together the Doritos example from the beginning, and also summed up your argument.

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